Episode 56: The One Where We Talk about Astrocasts

Because Beau has been busy...

00:45:27 N/A download

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Dave 00:15 Hi and welcome to another episode of the podcast. I'm Dave.

Beau 00:18 And am Beau.

Dave 00:20 It's been a while Beau. How are you doing?

Beau 00:21 I've been doing all right. It's finally cold here in the states. I don't know what it's like over in the UK, but I think it was 20 degrees Fahrenheit here the other day, which is well below zero. So yeah, I'd say it's starting to get to be winter here. So now I get to see what it would be like as a homeowner during winter. We already had to do some snow shoveling once we'll see how quickly that gets old.

Dave 00:51 Am sure will get old pretty quickly. It's not that cold here yet. We've had a little bit of cold now and then, but it's been wet here. We seem to have rained for days and days. Everything feels damp everywhere you look. It's puddles, you know, it just doesn't seem to be drying up. So that's a bit rubbish. It's funny. You should mention the phone night. Suppose you saw tweets go around quite viral. Someone I wouldn't say, I guess you might be considered a millennial, but certainly if only a few years younger than me, he was a games developer, and he said he was, so he was 30 years old, and he said he'd only just discovered how many ounces are in a pound, and he couldn't believe it. And then he found out how many pounds are in a stone and so on. And so it was a really good, multiple tweet rents of one of the bits that really tickled me and was it got onto early Americans a bit, particularly the swing we see. It's very frustrating for us when we see recipes that are American and he'd say a cup of something now we have hundreds of size of cups in this country anyway. But yeah, one of his tweets said there how many Fahrenheit or in a cup. And it just tickled me.

Beau 02:08 I just recently watched something about, I think it was someone who was German driving in the states. It was just one of those viral Facebook things and that was pretty amusing to watch. I haven't had an opportunity to drive another countries. I could appreciate it, but living here it was also pretty. Pretty abusive. Yeah. The see the ... I think there was something somewhere someone posted about Fahrenheit versus Calvin and versus Celsius and things like that. And the only way or the only time that Fahrenheit makes sense is 100 degrees as hot. A negative a hundred degrees is hot and negative 100 degrees. It's really cold. Whereas everything else is zero. Might mean something like it's totally fine. It might mean you're dead versus 100 might be in your five versus maybe you're dead. So Fahrenheit does have its place apparently.

Dave 03:10 Yeah, I guess so.

Beau 03:12 Yeah. So, I guess my big thing that I've been working on since we talked last has been Astrocasts, which I think I started in September, the end of September. So that means we haven't recorded in a while.

Dave 03:26 Yeah, I'd be busy but not with anything of interest.

Beau 03:32 Yeah. On top of the normal stuff that I'm doing for work stuff. I think, think if I actually added it up, it's probably around 60 hours worth of content now, between two projects. Directly related to that podcast I guess is one of the projects was rewriting the website to be from a sculpin static site to a Symfony flex application or Symfony for based application using flex and spent a lot of fun. It's also been very interesting to kind of put myself out there and let other people sort of watch me stumble in and things like that. People always talk about live demos or live code demos for talks as being a bad idea. And this has been just like that six hours a week.

Beau 04:23 It's been a lot of fun and it's also done a lot to help me not get stuck in the planning phase, which I know, you know, and I'm pretty sure the listeners have a pretty good idea that I have no problem at all thinking about a problem for weeks at a time and never actually getting anything done. And this has been really good for just making me do stuff. I have to make decisions. I can't just think about it for half an hour because that would be pretty boring. So I just got to try things and if it doesn't work then I try something else. So it's been, it's been really good. I've been pretty excited about it.

Dave 04:58 Yeah. So far you've got live content haven't you and was what the plans going forward do you have? You made your mind up here, but why are you going to start progressing? Because you were talking about maybe creating courses or polished videos?

Dave 05:12 Its been different to the live style videos ...

Dave 05:17 Do you got any plans for going forward?

Beau 05:20 Well that's, that's getting back into my old habits of thinking about things too much. But I do have plans for that. Like a lot of the things I'd like to do is I'm just like little tiny bits of playing with ideas and I and different types of concepts and things like that. Like I used to do a lot with like the event sourcing and cqrs stuff. I used to do a lot of stuff when I'm building sculpin, trying all sorts of different things and different patterns. I know that you and I did a lot of that kind of back in the early 2000 tens when we were playing with silex. So a lot of really cool ideas that we did, you know, things came out of that stack, that we actually got a Fabian onboard with controllers as a service, which I don't think he even really liked it.

Beau 06:04 I think you were the one who kind of pushed for that to be a thing. I'd like to get back to those sorts of things. I'm kind of try out some ideas. We find them, Polish them and then make little videos about them and share those with other people. The whole content creation thing has been interesting because like, I've tried to do that in the past with like blogging and that was never very. I don't know, I never felt like that was my thing. Like I wanted it to be and I tried really hard, but I've been really enjoying the video stuff. And if I think about it, I've really enjoyed the podcast stuff as well, so like this kind of content is closer I guess to like giving talks or tutorials and things like that versus writing stuff down, you know, like I know a lot of people who've written books and are really prolific bloggers. That's never really been me, but I've seen, I've, I really seem to like this. I'm enjoying this quite a bit.

Dave 07:01 Oh, that's good. It makes it a lot easier to carry on if you're enjoying it.

Beau 07:06 Yeah totally. The other thing was actually having a schedule of you're doing blogging or things like that. I know that I've, I've heard writers talking about you just have to sit down and write, just have to make it happen. And I guess I sort of did that with this. Also, say I set a date and publicly announced it whether anyone even saw it who was actually out there. So I knew I had to do my first one on September 24th. And then I set up a schedule and I've stuck to it. Uh, with the exception of actually being out of town, but otherwise it's been, it's been pretty good and it's been super helpful to have that thing where even if nobody shows up, there's that accountability of there might be people who are expecting you at 4:00, you have to be there, you have to start your stream and you have to do something.

Beau 07:54 I need to keep that in mind for any of the other things I want to do in my life, to actually set a schedule and stick to it and just keep at it because otherwise it's really easy for me just to not do anything. Even with the Astrocasts stuff. I mean, I probably spent a month just trying out different streaming techniques and different software and different videos, um, you know, like the little face camp thing and try to music and making it dip and all this stuff. And it was, it really wasn't helping. You know, as soon as I did my first episode or two, I realized I hated programming with music a while I was talking. So like, I don't know, I probably spent 20 hours just trying to get that music mixed, just right now it's the same thing that applies to launching anything, I guess you, you launch it and figure out what works and what doesn't. So it's been, it's been a lot of fun. It's been really exciting.

Dave 08:50 Yeah, it's cool. I mean, I haven't watched every minute of it. Particularly if I'm at my desk, I'll pop it on and so I'll keep my eye on it.

Beau 09:00 Yeah. That is a little weird, so I never have a good idea of how many people are watching. Um, I have a couple of tools to sort of tell me a twitch itself doesn't necessarily give you a really good idea of that. Um, and sometimes it's me, like if I actually am working on Astrocasts while streaming, I'll pull it up and then I count as a viewer and it says that I'm online at other times, you know, I have a little tiny indicator on my stream deck that says how many viewers I have and sometime I'll go, there are people in there and there'll be talking to me in chat and I'll have zero. So it's been a little weird trying to figure out just how big the audience is and how, like what sort of things are happening behind the scenes.

Beau 09:51 But I'm hoping I can continue to do more of that kind of thing. I've been that I've actually been building the whole streaming site as a part of one of the live sessions. So the first, the first two, one was rebuilding that podcast website and then the other one was essentially everything from that first initial landing page on for Astrocasts.com has all been streamed live streamed this maybe 10 hours where I've done stuff offline like on a weekend or at night or something. There were a couple of times where I'm like, I have the schedule up where I do that. Had done an eyebrow thing so that I could say these are the Times I'm screaming. And then on the site it looked at that I can feed it actually showed that, well I knew I was going on vacation the following week, so the ICAT feed wasn't smart enough yet to look at canceled events.

Beau 10:47 So I, even though I removed the iCal entry or even though I moved the calendar entries on Google calendar, it was still showed it was online. So yeah, there were a couple of times like that where I had to do some emergency fixes. But, it is kind of cool that like I have it documented exactly everything that happened from beginning to end for two projects, which feels pretty cool.

Dave 11:08 Yeah, definitely. It's really cool. And then the set up, the website for the podcast is switched over now, so we're no longer on the static them in a way that was hosted. Where was that hosted?

Beau 11:21 That was hosted on it was, it was hosted on a forge, managed a digital ocean droplet and I actually destroyed it, I destroyed that droplet. My intention was to rename it to sculpin.thatpodcast.io just so we could have a fallback and I could still check it, but during the process something happened and I wasn't able to, like change the name while I changed the name, but I am trying to get a LetsEncrypt certificate.

Beau 11:51 It kept failing for some reason, so I decided just to toss it. That whole system was only there for that podcast website. So we gotta to get rid of that, which was pretty nice. The coolest feature that I added I kind of wanted to intentionally limit the scope of the project. At least initially I wanted to just be able to switch it onto the new site. I also want it to be able to publish our put episodes up before they're published. So that was pretty much the only major feature, but sort of at the last minute I was able to get something else in where it's actually updating the MP three file with the metadata from the episode. So, I no longer have to come up with the title and the number and all of that other stuff beforehand when I'm actually doing the post production stuff, I can post produced six episodes now and upload them all and deal with everything else later and it's all automated.

Beau 12:49 So I'm pretty excited about that. I was pretty much the only other major feature with the new site, but I think it's a big one pretty excited about it.

Dave 12:59 It generates images on the fly as well. That's a new feature, right?

Beau 13:03 Yep. That's a new feature to you. Uh, so that feature was originally going to be a lot simpler. And it came around from updating the MP3. I want it to be able to embed our cover photo into the MP3, which is one of the steps that we have to do when we post produce it. And we have to do it in I tunes. It's the only way that I've really found to be able to do that. But as soon as we did that, I thought it would be cool to put the background image in as well. And then as soon as I get that, you know, like it came to me actually while we were doing the live stream, I realized that we could actually embed the metadata in the image as well.

Beau 13:39 So that just kind of spiraled out of control. So now the MP3 is that you download from our site will actually have a background image with the episode number embedded on it and the date and the title of the episode. So should be pretty cool. And also the uh, the sharing images for twitter and Facebook also look a lot better now to you because they all have that information on them.

Dave 14:01 It looks really good from what I've seen anyway.

Beau 14:03 Yeah. I started sharing some things in slack just to see what they look like. I particularly liked the last jet I won. I thought that looked pretty cool.

Dave 14:11 It looks great.

Beau 14:12 Yeah. So I don't know how many people will actually, I like, I don't know where that shows up, like an Itunes or overcast. Actually I should pull up overcast and see. But yeah, so that, that. So those were the first features and now we actually just published, I think it was episode 55 with Nicholas on the accessibility stuff. So that's the first episode that I actually uploaded an MP three and added the content to it before and then it published. Well at least the rss reader that looked in our slack channel, I think it picked it up within 15 minutes. So that really good to see that.

Dave 14:54 See that podcast?

Beau 14:56 Oh the first one? No, that's not what we're looking for. So yeah, we still have probably, I don't know, two or three episodes of rerecorded like months ago that I have to get up on online. But honestly getting the site updated is going to make that a lot better because before, the way that it would work is I would get one episode ready and that usually takes about one to two hours to do it all manually. And then I don't really feel like could the next one out because I can't put it up, I'd have to like create the MP3 and then let it sit for two weeks or three weeks. And if I do four and advance it, just the pain.

Beau 15:46 I can actually just sit down one day, and I can probably do our episode now tonight, or make it be ready by tomorrow. Like I can turn them around really quickly, but even if we get behind we can still turn them around pretty quickly and just schedule them to come out when they're ready. So it's gonna make a big impact on our podcast at least. So I'm pretty excited about that.

Dave 16:10 Yeah, it sounds good. Then say probably it might save a few dollars as well. When you were using simple cost before, and it's not expensive by any means, but I mean I guess we'll have to see what the S3 fees for downloads the S3 feet.

Beau 16:30 Yeah. So I hooked up S3 for those. I think analytics like building our own custom analytics is going to be, one of the things that I'll do is like a mini, a live session, so that we can start tracking that in the meantime we're not going to be able to see anything on simple casts anymore because all the content is being served from S3 but also we have the Roku fees. So where were we traded our simple casts monthly fee for her cost again-

Dave 16:59 Because you will, we sell that in way because it's an organization you can't do the hobby.

Dave 17:07 And what is the price for cheapest dyno?

Beau 17:11 I think it's $7 a month.

Dave 17:13 Right, okay.

Beau 17:13 But, I haven't turned it on yet, but we're going to need to turn on the consumer and the consumer Dyno can't be the hobby. No, I don't think so. I'm not sure. I haven't, I haven't flipped it on yet just because I'm still looking at them by hand. That's actually something I got to do for the first time. Like, I feel really silly saying this, but I never worked with a proper eq before for like background processing at asynchronous stuff, but I actually got to sit up rabbit, both projects now have worked with the Symfony Messenger component, so it's kind been trial by fire and learning that stuff live in front of people, but it works. I like it. But there's, there're things that I'm not handling just yet, like if the consumer actually fails it recuses, but right now if it fails, chances are it's going to fail every time.

Beau 18:09 So really what I need to do is figure out the whole dead letter exchange sorta thing. Um, but I don't how to configure that. So right now at least for that podcast stuff, since it's more complicated, I'm just running the consumer by hand using Heroku run and then it just sits in processes, everything. But it's slow processing our entire catalog. It took about two and a half to three hours the first time we imported everything. So I had to actually turn it back on again. I like, like the Heroku run canceled itself somehow or whatever. It just sat there and got stuck. So yeah, I need to figure out the dead letter stuff, but as soon as I turned that on for real, then we'll be able to see how much her broke is actually going to cost us.

Beau 18:59 It looks like I have the episode downloaded here on. See? No, it's still shows. It shows the episode photo for the actual episode. No for the podcast not the episode.

Beau 19:19 Oh No. Well if you play.

Beau 19:21 Yeah, when I actually play it at shows.

Dave 19:24 That's good.

Beau 19:25 So that's pretty sweet. Pretty excited about that. Cool. Yeah, so that was kind of a last minute addition that, that I wasn't sure we'd be able to get onto it, but, I really just needed to be done so that we could publish that episode and so then we can start publishing more. I've, I've realized as I was working on this that I started it at the end of September and the last episode before this last one was on October 18th. It's been, it had been over a month since we published the previous episodes, so I really wanted to get it done quick. Yeah. So how about you, what have you been working on these days? Unfortunately, nothing too interesting on the side and just not really been able to make time for anything.

Dave 20:21 So with work I'm the one really interesting thing I've been working on is I finally succumbed to pressure on my friend sort of skills and knowledge. So it's been awhile, and we're trying to get to start. We need to start making the front end a little bit more interactive. I'd played with view for a few different things, but I'd always just loaded it via the cdn on those specific pages. And there was a few of the things that sort of slowly pushed me in the direction I was using more and more tail winds style stuff. So the minute while I'm sort of using tailwind, I'm actually pretty much copy pasting the bits of tailwind that I would like to use in to my existing project.

Dave 21:11 And that's actually been quite a nice way to adopt it because I was starting to understand it very well based on them doing that, but also it's like incrementally letting me add bits of table and, and then get rid of my custom, actual proper CSS or the old crufty legacy CSS as I go.

Beau 21:33 How are you copying in the pieces that you want from tailwind? Like are you actually using tailwind, proper, insane, enabled these pieces or are you-

Dave 21:42 I, literally copy and pasted bits. I will.

Beau 21:47 Okay, cool.

Dave 21:49 So can you imagine the padding on the padding classes? So I grabbed those with the media queries for the, just based on the standard build of tailwind, grabbing them, popping in my CSS, with the view to eventually putting it all in proper. I guess that it was about time and started to replace. We have a very, we had a bait, very basic, a sort of build for the front end where I concatenated files. I did some, I used a sort of sprockets style comments in. So I'd have one target application dot CSS file and then in CSS comments I'd have require this file.

Dave 22:37 So my make file actually had some shell scripts in word in line. Those are the files and put it through a modifier. And same for the JavaScript basically. But that's all switched out. Now we're using web pack and proper JavaScript modules. The city says it's pretty much mostly all the old CSS still. But eventually that will get. I'll remove all my copy and pasted tailwind drop the actual tail. We've been building it. You see, I could have been something like the reason being I didn't want to put the full tailwind building was because I already had several kilobytes of CSS already. I didn't want to drop it all in, you know, increase that font file size by double or whatever. And I'm just not confident enough to put something like CSS into play because the projects, all this stuff everywhere, you know, that could even be sort of some content in databases, you know, that uses styles in the style sheet that.

Dave 23:43 So even though style's not present in the code, it might still be used somewhere or we add things like that, but eventually I will get there. So I'm using what park we're doing things the proper way as far as I can tell. Anyway, we're pretty confusing, but it's far better than it used to be. And I, did actually get going quite quickly with it. I've, we've adopted stimulus JS as a framework to use for the time being. I like it and I particularly liked the tagline and a lot of people commented on the Tagline, it's JavaScript framework for the html. Do you already have a, basically you connecting to existing hasty mail so you're not building the html or like you would do with Vue or react or other ones that I'm not really aware of. And that's working very nicely for most of the stuff we have on the platform.

Dave 24:40 The stuff it's not working very nicely for is the things where I've used view previously and I've tried to convert and it's messy just because view is really good at generating the html folio. It doesn't work quite as well if you try and do it server side, front side together, but all in all, I like it and it's a good stop gap for me. Go with a view to eventually getting turbolinks running as well.

Beau 25:16 So turbolinks or something that I think I first heard about it maybe a year and a half ago and didn't really get it or want to try it, but I think you mentioned it recently too. And have you, you said you had a bookmark lit, right?

Dave 25:31 That turns out it's a book market. Basically loads table links from some cdn somewhere and turns it on. If you're not familiar with turbolinks, and the listeners are not familiar, it's a JavaScript library. It came out of a rate of seven signals or rails, whatever, and basically intercept clicks and forum posts as well if you'd like, if you'd like it to tens that click into xh request or xh requests, whatever.

Dave 26:09 And then when it gets a return, it swaps the body soaps or body out for the body that came back from the salary. And the Ajax request, so what you're doing is you're skipping the loading of JavaScript files, CSS for every request, so rather than infection, the full page, full page, but rather than reading all the head again, running all JavaScript again, Paris passing, obviously assess again, you're just swapping out the body. And it, it looks nice. It the things you have to be careful are things the way you were touched. JavaScript to things know, do things like set time out. So you know, and then all of a sudden the things have gone. You need to make sure they get canceled things and doing things on load is obviously slightly different now. But if you use something like stimulus is already built to use tablet uses those as I slowly moved more towards stimulus, it should be relatively easy for me to turn.

Dave 27:20 So it does give me just a little bit more of a feeling of a sort of native app, a single page app feel without having to do the hard work.

Beau 27:31 Yeah. So I wanted to try it and actually gave it a try on Astrocasts. And I don't think this one actually got recorded because was one of those things I just wanted to do one night for fun and it, even though my site is relatively easy, the two pieces of JavaScript that were on it that weren't mine didn't play well with it. It was the intercom widget was being reloaded every page, and I probably tried for 45 minutes, and I never got to work and that there was stuff with a status app that I have a think it's headway Darko or headway that little header bar and I think it was one of the things that you're talking about with like the set time timeouts is there was some sort of set time out somewhere that showed the widget so that if you clicked around too fast, the widget would keep showing up.

Beau 28:27 So eventually filled up the navigation bar with the little widgets. I finally got that one almost to work, and I was maybe ready to use it, but the JavaScript actually stopped executing, so I could click on it on the first page load. But as soon as I clicked on other pages, it no longer open to anything, so I had to, I had to throw away that effort, but I am excited to try it and I hope I can forgive some of that stuff out because it does seem like a like easy win to make your site feel faster.

Dave 28:57 Yeah, it definitely does. I mean, and there are some fairly complicated, sort of settings and options you can do like I don't know how well it works, but you can tell it a particular element on the page should be maintained.

Beau 29:11 So that's what I was trying to do with the intercom widget and this other one so you can specify that things don't swap this one out and things like that.

Dave 29:22 And then you can, you can, you can wait a blacklist, certain pages. So they always get fetched for me rendered properly. I don't know if it comes with one but you can definitely add like a little, a loading bar across the top because obviously when the click they'll no longer see the traditional reloading in the tab or whatever it is to chrome or Firefox. And as far we do, we got, like I say it's pretty well proven. It's been used to, I don't know, in a lot of places. And the thing is I'm improving the front end code anyway and if I ever, if I don't ever get to turn on turbolinks, it wouldn't. It wouldn't have been a wasted effort to get to this place now because all the front end code it's far better. I'm actually against the point now where I'm thinking I could actually start writing some decent test for my JavaScript to something I've never done a just because I do some full browser testing now. But I meant specifically sort of unit style isolate tests for just running in the JavaScript and things like that.

Beau 30:26 So something that I've tried to do it for that podcast site a while back was not half the hamburger menu. I've read some (UX) stuff that's not necessarily the best thing. Like nobody knows what it's called. We call it a hamburger menu. But if I tell back, click the hamburger menu, you're, she doesn't know. That's what it's called. She said she doesn't even know, like apparently people are just going to learn it because they have to because everybody uses it. But at least with that podcast I wanted to experiment with not having that. So anytime you look at any of our pages, the social media icons eventually change and then you just see the menu because it's always visible. That didn't really scale very well on Astrocasts site. So I decided I wanted to use the hamburger menu. Have you tried to add the hamburger menu using like Vanilla Java script or CSS or anything like that? For systems that don't just have it built in like bootstrap?

Dave 31:28 I might have, I don't really know.

Beau 31:30 It's a pain, like if you don't, if you're not using jQuery or if you're not building a few component, there aren't any good examples for how to do this and like basic JavaScript, like just really easily. I went to the tailwinds page because I knew that the docs are online because I've contributed to the docs for tailwind. And realize that I could go see what their navigation looks like. And it's way more complicated than I expected, even though it's only 5 lines of code. That's because over half of it looks to be implementing essentially a turbolinks. The dot JS looks like it's, it says make an Ajax request to get the page content. It gets the title from the html, it downloads, it does some other weird things. Does some scroll top push date. I think they've implemented essentially the same thing that you would get from a turbolinks, but in about 50 lines of JavaScript.

Dave 32:43 They have quite a captive audience . So it doesn't seem too concerned about any browser compatibility and things like that.

Beau 32:54 So yeah, I just thought I, you know, I went there to look for what they were doing and to close the sidebar and opened the sidebar and they're using jQuery. And as much as I've been trying to be pragmatic about the stuff that I've been working on lately, I just don't want to have to do jQuery, now I have this whole build system that comes with web pack and everything I don't want to end up doing in line jQuery anymore. Like it doesn't, it doesn't seem like you should have to do that. But sometimes it looks like the easiest solution is just to use jQuery, which is kind of bummer.

Dave 33:33 Yeah, I mean I've been sort of removing a little bit of jQuery as I've gone but to me honestly a lot of the time it is fairly useful just. And I mean at one point I think I try to impart in low dash to see how, how that works out instead of using Jack. Because I mean I still quite often use, you know, dollar each for. Yeah. You know, it's written over things with Jay and I and some of those things and um, low dash was massive. I didn't realize how big it was and I think you can, I think you can actually bits of lake rather than all of it now, but even so was a bit like I think I'll just stick to jQuery rather than working on which bits of Lodi sine ad and then and so on and so forth. So yeah, I, I know what you mean. Uh, but yeah, I don't know.

Beau 34:30 Yeah. So I had been visiting, uh, you might not be jQuery. Have you seen that site? I've been visiting that quite a bit to try to figure out how to do the minimal stuff of the biggest things that I've found that I actually need are at class removed class. And then the query selector stuff, but it looks like you can just use the built in Java script, a query selector at this point and it looks reasonably well supported. Um, so I had been able to get away with probably four or five functions from that site to actually be able to do things. But yeah, it was, it was not easy to do that. And if a certain point, and I'm wondering am I fighting this too hard? Should I just use jQuery? But so far I've met just to avoid it. I'm pretty excited about that even though it's been somewhat painful.

Dave 35:21 Yeah. So you meant that's funny. You should mentioned the uh, the hamburger menu thing. I split tested that one point, bullets and had the handbag or on or a book literally set menu and there was that difference at all in engagement, whether. So that suggested to me that even if the humpback ray come wasn't as clear as the word menu, it didn't stop anyone from tapping in and finding out if that makes sense. Yeah. Because it was literally no difference in the amount of clicks on the button, percentage wise of people who are on the page that had clicked. It just as much of it was my new as if it was a hamburger. I didn't measure the speed or anything like that, but as long as people are finding the menu didn't really bother me, so... Yep.

Beau 36:17 Yeah, that's the big reason I just decided that it needed to go. I actually got a google webmaster tools wording that my icons were too close together for the navigation, so I took that opportunity to fix up the mobile view and also add that I add the little flicker things. So yeah. Have you done anything with whether components?

Dave 36:41 No, I'm, not really sure. Uh, I think it's really something bit far behind in terms of the browsers and what supports what but things like that. And they fairly cutting edge or they support it.

Beau 36:58 Let's see here. Can I use components? So they have you have a poly fill see here? Yeah.

Dave 37:11 Poly fills just don't always do it for me either. Yeah, it's very painful. How, how big the poly fills I have to include already.

Beau 37:22 So let's see here. So the funny thing is that what components is actually kind of big thing. Um, it's not just one, one thing, it's ... So like if you go to the Kennedy use page, it has a shadow dom html templates and then customize elements V zero html imports and custom elements of. It looks like the custom elements. V One is pretty much where I got to, uh, in the stuff I was doing. I did some things with shadow dom but I think I misunderstood stuff and it wasn't required and everything became a lot more simple as soon as I got rid of the shadow dom bits of the code.

Dave 38:07 I just looking at the summary at the bottom, a 33 percent of compatibility with safari. It's just not worth me looking at this point s afari is that biggest browser by a good way. And we'd still need to spot I and there's nothing, you know, so things like that I just basically don't bother looking at because it's going to be so long before I have to, you know, could really look at it. So yeah, I've not done anything with it.

Beau 38:41 Interesting. I thought that these numbers were a lot better back in the day. So I mean it. Wait, are you seeing chrome 36 percent? Is that what you thought it said?

Dave 38:54 No. Safari it's 33 percent a safari. Okay. I'm looking at the summary at the very bottom, which is a calculation of the ...

Beau 39:01 Yeah.

Dave 39:02 Different things above. So 100 percent for chrome. I'll load the newest version of chrome says 50 percent of the must have messed something up.

Beau 39:08 Hey, can you send me your link that you're looking at? Because I think I'm looking at a different one.

Dave 39:12 Yeah, sure.

Beau 39:13 Because I thought this was an awesome thing, but if for some reason I, my, I thought my numbers were different in terms of what you could actually use, um, calculation support. Currently sick lifted criteria. Okay. I see. What you're looking at ...

Dave 39:49 It's probably not really that relevant as a whole figure because if custom elements have been shut, two of the things or version zero version one. So version zero is what really mass it will even.

Dave 40:00 So, if you take a custom elements version one a so far he only has I'm having a hard time understanding what these are saying.

Dave 40:13 So far it has partial support for custom elephant custom elements ...

Beau 40:20 But it can't customize the built in elements. Okay. Uh, supports, but what do those numbers mean? Or is that 63 percent for Firefox? Seventy percent for chrome and 12 for Safari?

Dave 40:37 No, there's the version numbers.

Beau 40:39 Okay. So where do you see the wave right down to the bottom. Scroll right down. There is a calculation of support. Now I took that to be chrome. Seventy to 100 percent supports that.

Dave 40:55 Whereas safari technology preview says of the features I guess, but he's probably a bit, it's probably not that relevant when it's showing two different versions of a feature on the page.

Beau 41:07 Yeah. I was wondering if there was a way to look from this specific feature.

Dave 41:12 Yeah. To know.

Beau 41:14 Okay, cool. Anyway, I took a look at that. That's been kind of interesting. You know, if I have done work with react in the past, like a considerable amount of work with react and I've done a fair amount but not a fair amount, actually less amount with a view. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to work more with like react or try to do with you or try to use what components, because it seems like there's a lot of the reasons that I would use react, your view. Some of the simpler cases maybe seemed to be things that could be handled pretty easily using custom elements. So I don't know. I kind of wanted to see how they worked. Uh, there's a bunch of those things that I need to learn more about. Uh, the other thing is the progressive web pws. What are those apps here? Which, I don't remember if we talked about it before, but when I had seen that in the past, I just thought it was the same thing. It's like progressive JavaScript, but apparently it's its own thing.

Dave 42:23 Um, yeah, loads of different things. You can, you can use these lighthouses to tool to audit, isn't it? The biggest thing I'm aware of, um, for the progressive web APP is that you have to install what'd you call them to call them workers?

Beau 42:40 Yeah. Web Service workers.

Dave 42:41 Yeah. You have to be really one of those that will respond if you are offline. So instead of the shouldn't ever be an offline sort of page, if that makes sense. So if you're, if there is no Internet access, your web service worker will kick in and still make the app work to his best ability without being online and think that's something I recall seeing in the audits and stuff, but I don't know. And there're all sorts of weird things about having. And if you, if you pass all the tests to let you put an icon on the home screen on and it acts like an APP, doesn't it or something like that.

Beau 43:19 Yeah, I think so. He uses the manifest to define things like the icon and the load screen and all these other things. Um, it looks like you can define whether you want the APP to open in a browser window or full screen browser or a native shell type thing. It looks pretty cool. I'd like to do more with it. But between that and the web components and who else? Who knows what else that I'm missing. It does seem like there's a lot of stuff happening out in browser and html land that I think I'd like to get, get a little more experienced at least knowing what's there.

Dave 43:55 Yeah, definitely. If you want to run the APP, if you go into the chrome developer tools, you can run the light house holiday from in there. I think it'll tell you some of the stuff about where you need to make your app a progressive web app. It's not something I've looked at too much, it's just a notice this, that, and the other.

Beau 44:14 Cool. Nice. Well, I think we're getting pretty long based on our recent episode length, so I think we might need to call this one quits unless you have something you want to talk about.

Dave 44:25 No, I'm losing my voice anyway. I've got a cold. Yeah, I'm struggling with it, so Yeah, I'm happy to finish this movie already.

Beau 44:35 Alright, cool. Alright. Well, I guess let's call this one a wrap then.

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